BABYL OPTIONS: -*- rmail -*- Version: 5 Labels: Note: This is the header of an rmail file. Note: If you are seeing it in rmail, Note: it means the file has no messages in it.  0, unseen,, *** EOOH *** Path: yale!news-mail-gateway!daemon From: HILL JANET SWAN Newsgroups: rec.sport.skating.ice.figure Subject: becoming a judge Date: 24 Jun 1996 16:47:14 -0400 Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway Lines: 112 Sender: daemon@cs.yale.edu Message-ID: <19960624164706.aaaa003uZ@babyblue.cs.yale.edu> Reply-To: HILL JANET SWAN NNTP-Posting-Host: babyblue.cs.yale.edu JEN asks how one becomes a judge. I can answer for USFSA only, though CFSA has somewhat analogous procedures. The US and Canada probably have the most organized/formalized systems for qualifying judges, and in some countries, just having been a highly ranked skater may be enough to get you certified as a judge. Anyhow, in USFSA ... (disclaimer: it's more complicated than this, and there are more variables, but this is sort of the way it works) You need not know how to skate (but everything is much easier to understand if you do), you must be 18 (?) years old, and you must be eligible (i.e. no pros, no coaches). You must be a member of USFSA. There are two tracks of prospective judges. Regular and Accelerated. Accelerated is for high level skaters. Regular is for the rest of us. I'll cover "regular". Call USFSA headquarters and ask for a trial judges' packet. It includes lots of information. If you decide to go ahead with it, return your registration. You should probably also buy the judges' manual at this point, and start looking around for a judges' school. Buy a current rulebook. Then get in touch with the Test Chair at your Home Club, and say you would like to begin trial judging. You can begin trial judging without having been to a judges' school, but the less you know about skating the less I would recommend it. You are eligible to begin trialing Preliminary, 1st, and 2nd test figures (And adult Bronze); Pre-Preliminary, Preliminary, Pre-Juvenile, and Juvenile freestyle (and Adult Bronze) and Moves in the Field; Preliminary through Juvenile pairs, and Preliminary through Pre-silver dance. Tests only, not competitions. You show up at a test session, having arranged it in advance with the Test Chair, and judge each test that you are eligible to trial "for real". You do it on special "Trial papers" rather than regular papers, and you turn your results in to the judge in charge before you learn the results. You ask questions about what you don't understand. Your opinion makes no difference to the test result, but your papers are sent to USFSA, along with a full indication of what the opinion of the panel was. After you have judged enough of each level of test (free,figures and pairs can be done separately from dance), and have agreed with the panel for the overwhelming majority of the time, you can submit your papers for your first level appointment. The number of trials, your level of agreement with the panel, the quality of your remarks, your skating history, both competitive and test, are all included in your request for an appointment. The more skating experience you have, the more likely deviations from the panel are to be regarded as "your opinion" as opposed to "ignorance". You do this all at your own expense. All judges are required to take a written test once a year, and to attend a judges' school every 2 years (unless the school itself is rated for 4-years of credit). You should probably also plan to do a lot of hanging around rinks to watch skaters, and might want to ask a coach or two with whom you have at least a cordial relationship if you can observe some of their lessons. Once you get your low test appointment, you can judge the tests at the levels you trialed and can judge low-level non-qualifying competitions, and you begin trialing tests and competitions at the next level. You don't get paid for judging. But you get your expenses reimbursed (but of course, you take your own vacation time and don't get reimbursed for that). USFSA has just voted to pay judges and other officials at Nationals a little something, but the emphasis should be on "little". Judges from many other countries get paid. There was a message on here last week or so where someone said "I'm not a professional judge or anything" and I nearly responded, pointing out that in USFSA, if you are a professional, you can't be a judge, and judges are truly "amateurs" in the sense of people who do it for the love of it, not the money (since they don't get any money). Judging is something that you shouldn't get into unless you are truly interested in the sport and in being of service to the skaters and the sport in general. It can be incredibly rewarding, but it's the satisfaction that comes from being of service. If you are interested in glamor, be prepared to take a few years to get there. You will spend a lot of time judging pre-juvenile boys before you get to intermediate ladies ..... and so on, and you will spend a lot of time judging test sessions and local competitions before you make it to regionals, much less sectionals and nationals. Judges schools do not teach you about skating. If you don't know about the skating itself (for instance if you can't tell the jumps apart, or can't discern which edge a skater is on .... or don't know why it matters .... or you don't know the dances, etc., you'll need to learn that on your own. Judges' schools also do not teach you the mechanics of judging (like how to fill in the sheets, suggestions for shorthands, hints on scorekeeping and marking or even addition). Judges' schools give demonstrations, have videos and discussions about what to look for, how to weigh things against each other, etc. For instance, you may see a first test figure .... like 3s to center, and then walk the figure and then discuss what you saw, how important which thing is, and whether it would be passing, passing in a passing test, passing in a failing test, or failing in a failing test. You may see a pairs test program and be told afterward that three illegal moves were performed and be asked to identify them. You may see a dance and talk about the correctness of the partner positions. You may see actual tests ..... You never see all of everything. For precision skating there are judges schools, but there are no tests. The only way you can get a precision appointment is to trial competitions. Since these are few and far between, and since there must be at least 5 teams in any division you trial for you to get credit for it, it can be rather expensive to get a precision appointment. I hope this helped. janet swan hill hilljs@colorado.edu  1,, Mail-from: From owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Thu Jun 27 13:07:54 1996 Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by nebula.systemsz.cs.yale.edu (8.7.1/res.host.cf-4.0) with ESMTP id JAA28163; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:07:50 -0400 (EDT) sender owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu for <'sjl@nebula.systemsz.cs.yale.edu> Received: from copland.udel.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU (8.7.1/res.host.bitnet.cf-4.1) with ESMTP id JAA02155; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:07:13 -0400 (EDT) sender owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu for Received: (from majordom@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA14100 for skatefans-l-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:05:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: copland.udel.edu: majordom set sender to owner-skatefans-l using -f Received: from utrecht.knoware.nl (utrecht.knoware.nl [193.78.120.3]) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14068 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from knoware.nl.knoware.nl (amsterdam-ppp1.knoware.nl [193.79.176.11]) by utrecht.knoware.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA06173 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:05:21 +0200 Message-Id: <199606271305.PAA06173@utrecht.knoware.nl> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jeroen A. Prins" To: skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:03:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Judges (long!!) Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Precedence: bulk *** EOOH *** Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jeroen A. Prins" To: skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:03:32 +0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Judges (long!!) Priority: normal Sender: owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu I will try to answer to Dirk's questions one by one. > I understand that becoming a judge means climbing up a ladder of increasingly difficult > tasks. But: how many steps are there on this ladder? > what rights or responsibilities distinguish the steps? > at what point does one get to judge international events? I refer to the situation in Holland. You can become a judge when you are 18, and have passed some figure skating tests, in order to show your ability that you're acquainted with the sport. You have to take part in a basic course, judge together with the normal panel of judges at least 5 competitions in a season (your marks won't count though). After that season you will be evaluated by the figure skating committee, and they can put you on the list as a 'junior judge' when they think you did well and have the right attitude towards judging. A junior judge can judge in Holland the lower tests and regional competitions. After having acted two years succesfully as a junior judge and taken part in all the necessary judges' courses and meetings, you can move up to National judge. As a national judge you are allowed to judge all national competitions and tests at all levels and referee at regional competitions, if no higher qualified judge is available. If you do well, you can be promoted to National referee, which gives you the qualification of refereeing all national competitions and tests. In order to be put on the list of International judges of the ISU, one must comply with the ISU regulations. That means that you have to be aged over 24 and under 45 and have judged at least twice in national championships at Senior level. For many countries, it also depends on whether there is a place available on the international list, because it is no use putting many judges on the international list and then having no activity for them afterwards. For myself, I started judging at 18, was National judge at 21, and I had the luck there were some places vacant on the international list, because at that time many older international judges quit. I came on the list as International judge at 25, referee for international competitions at 28, the year in which I also took the ISU judges' examination in Oberstdorf, you have to pass that examination in order to be promoted to European/World championship judge, and so I achieved that qualification aged 29. And so at my current age of 32 I already judged twice at European championships, and refereed three times at an official ISU recognized international competition. I am also qualified as an international judge for Ice dancing since 1995. > How are judges chosen for international events, and who chooses them? At the top > (Worlds and Olympics) or lesser levels, are there any constraints on the choice, such as > no country represented more than once on any panel, or some countries *must* be > represented? International competitions: the country entering competitors can (most of the time) also enter a judge for each event in which it enters competitors, usually with a maximum of two. Usually panels will be made by the organizers, with preference that you judge in the events in which you have competitors (this seems to be a tradition..). Sometimes you have to judge more events, f.i. if there are not enough judges to complete the panels, and sometimes at big international competitions there might be a draw for the panels so you can be also without work if you have bad luck if you're not drawn. But 99% of the time you can be assured of 'having to work' at these events. ISU-championships (Europeans/Worlds); for each event you enter competitors you may enter a judge, with a maximum of three judges. There is a free draw among all countries for each event, Pairs to be drawn first, Dance second, Ladies/Men either third or fourth. No judges can be in more than one panel. For the final round, preference is given to countries that have a competitor in the final. Usually there are more than 60 judges present, and there are only 40 'places' for the final (9 judges per panel + the substitute judge), so a lot of them will be without work. I had the luck two times I was the only judge for Holland and I had a Pair in the competition, so in Dortmund the draw was like this: Pairs: 9 countries with a pair and a judge entered (no draw! judges were just placed in that panel) Dance: 18 countries with a dancecouple and a qualified dancejudge Ladies: 21 countries with a lady in the final and a qualified judge Men: 15 countries with a man in the final and a qualified judge. > I understand that only a few judges are eligible to judge the top events, but how few is > few? Dozens, hundreds? Any rough guesses as to how many American, Canadian, Russian, > French, Japanese, Chinese, or Ugandan are currently in the pool? (I think I can > make a good stab at the Ugandans, anyway.) As said before, at European and World championships, only judges with the qualification 'Judge for ISU championships' may act. At all other international competitions, also 'Judges for international competitions' may act. There is a separate judges' list for figure skating and a separate one for icedancing. Here are the names of the latest ISU judges' list for figure skating of the USA: Referees for ISU championships: Newbold Black, Lucy Brennan, Charles Foster, Hugh Graham, Ronald Pfenning Judges for ISU championships: Janet Allen, Elaine deMore, Patricia French, Roger Glenn, Joan Gruber, Susan Johnson, Paula Naughton, Franklin Nelson, Margaret Wier. Referees for international competitions: James Disbrow, Joan Gruber, Franklin Nelson, William Smith, Steve Winkler. Judges for international competitions: Samuel Auxier, Joan Burns, Tamie Campbell, Eleanor Curtis, Charles Cyr, Taffy Holliday, Monty Hoyt, Joseph Inman, Joyce Komperda, Linda Leaver, John LeFevre, Barlow Nelson, Jean Robinson, Margery Schleh, Anne Shean, Gale Tanger. > Very specifically, I've just been looking in detail at the ice dance judging at the > World's this year, and I noticed that each of the compulsory dances was judged by seven > judges from seven different countries. The OSP and Free Dance were then judged by what > I assume was the same panel of nine judges (since the countries listed - which are the > only information I have - were identical for those two events). But the nine countries > listed here were drawn from the same pool of 14 that judged the compulsories. Is it > therefore a) a sure bet b) possible c) unlikely or d) impossible, that these nine judges > were the same people as judged the compulsories? Yes, there was a 'pool' of dance judges, out of which two different panels of 7 were drawn for the 2 compulsory dances. Before the OD, a new panel of 9 was formed for the rest of the championship. But of course, in that panel of 9, already a lot of them had judged in one of the compulsories. > (Am I making myself clear? My problem is that I only have information about > countries, but judges are individual people. If France, say, is listed in two events, > can I assume it's the same judge? Or is there some rule or practice that says no, each > judge is only entitled to one event?) I mentioned this before, for ISU championships, one individual judge can only be active in one final round. And with the degree of difficulty, the number of entries, and the level of the championships, I think this is a very good rule. Jeroen  1,, Mail-from: From owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Fri Jun 28 03:30:14 1996 Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by nebula.systemsz.cs.yale.edu (8.7.1/res.host.cf-4.0) with ESMTP id XAA15860; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:30:12 -0400 (EDT) sender owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu for <'sjl@nebula.systemsz.cs.yale.edu> Received: from copland.udel.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU (8.7.1/res.host.bitnet.cf-4.1) with ESMTP id XAA27228; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:26:48 -0400 (EDT) sender owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu for Received: (from majordom@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA12894 for skatefans-l-outgoing; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:25:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: copland.udel.edu: majordom set sender to owner-skatefans-l using -f Received: from lsu.logicnet.com (lsu.logicnet.com [204.50.12.2]) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12878 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by lsu.logicnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA20877 for skatefans-l@udel.edu; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:50:45 -0600 To: skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:23:18 From: debby.fortin@bbs.logicnet.com (Debby Fortin) Message-ID: <646590.960627.212318@bbs.logicnet.com> Subject: Age Requirements in Judgi Organization: Logical Solutions Sender: owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Precedence: bulk *** EOOH *** To: skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:23:18 From: debby.fortin@bbs.logicnet.com (Debby Fortin) Subject: Age Requirements in Judgi Organization: Logical Solutions Sender: owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu DD>Is the age limit of 45 referring to the oldest age a judge can be to be DD>*initially* placed on the ISU list? It seems to me that many ISU judges DD>I've seen on t.v. look older than 45. The age of 45 is the upper limit for the *initial* appointment, Dianna. And International is different than ISU. International judges can do Skate America etc. but only ISU judges do Worlds and Olympics (is that not correct, Jeroen?). That's another appointment in itself...from International to ISU. That's not to say that judge will get an international assignment right away. In fact, in Canada, we have many judges at the International level and many more trying to get to that level. As a result, these judges get to judge at very few competitions as there is not enough to go around, so to speak. With the new competitions that seem to be popping up, there will be more, of course. Judges in the smaller countries get a lot of assignments, simply because the country has few judges and thus the few have to be sent to the many competitions. In Canada, one has to have been a National level judge for 3 years before applying for International level. In other words, I'm never going to make it. I chose to stay at home and raise my three very close in age (3 in 31/2 years....took me awhile to figure out what was causing all this....;-) kids, rather than run around all over the city and province to trial judge events in order to get promoted. Money was tight and I could not afford babysitters as well as being restricted by one car...you all remember those early, lean, mean years....:-) High level Saskatchewan judges have many stories of travelling many miles to get enough trials in, coming home at 3 a.m., only to get up to go to work four hours later...yikes!! I don't regret my choice, as I treasure the time spent with the kids and felt especially grateful for that decision after my middle son died. Like Jeroen, I started right at 18, but unlike him, I didn't climb the ladder quite as fast, as university, then family obligations interfered. Nevertheless, I truly enjoy judging at the Provincial level and perhaps, if the CFSA feels I'm good enough at it, they'll let me judge at the Divisional level, some day. National level....wellllllll. Now that's a very big dream!! If I make it, great; if I don't, I'll accept it. Those 'old' judges that you see on the TV have been at this job for many many years. If you had tapes from the 60's you would, more than likely, see a few of their faces in a younger form. An ISU judge here in Calgary judged Janet Lynn and I believe Worlds before that, so that was the at least the early 70's and she is still doing Worlds and Olympics. Mind you, she looks quite young in comparison to some of the other judges, but that's due, I suspect, to a healthy lifestyle....:-) DD>Also, does anyone think that age 24 is a bit too young to be judging a DD>senior level international competition? I think there is something to be DD>said for the perspective and maturity that come with age. A number of DD>senior level competitors are older than 24, and might feel awkward being DD>judged by someone younger than they are. I don't think there are any judges in their 20's at Worlds, are there, Jeroen? I think Jeroen is quite the exception in terms of age. You may see more and more younger judges coming in to replace those who retire though, in the future. We have some judges here that are in their 20's and are just terrific judges. They know their stuff so well, and do remarkable jobs on a panel. I wouldn't be surprised to see them at a high level very quickly. Despite being young, they have a very mature outlook on life and judging and I would feel very comfortable seeing these young ladies on a World's panel. Judging high levels is very hard work and requires a lot of skill and fortitude. The pressure is incredible and I would venture to say the judges feel as much pressure as the skaters. It takes a special type of person to make an ISU judge and despite disagreeing with panels on occasion, I admire each and every one. Debby ___ * UniQWK #2804* Keep honking....I'm reloading..... --- Our InterNet Provider --------------------------------------------- Logical Solutions. Calgary, Alberta, Canada. (403)-247-7900. 50 Lines. Your T1 Link, providing Graphical as well as Terminal Internet access. 40 GIG BBS System. Most lines 33.6K. WWW/LYNX/FTP/TELNET/IRC/PPP. -----------------------------------------------------------------------  1,, Mail-from: From owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Sat Jun 29 09:42:00 1996 Received: from eli.CS.YALE.EDU by nebula.systemsz.cs.yale.edu (8.7.1/res.host.cf-4.0) with ESMTP id FAA21211; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:41:58 -0400 (EDT) sender owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu for <'sjl@nebula.systemsz.cs.yale.edu> Received: from copland.udel.edu by eli.CS.YALE.EDU (8.7.1/res.host.bitnet.cf-4.1) with ESMTP id FAA02180; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:40:37 -0400 (EDT) sender owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu for Received: (from majordom@localhost) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA17642 for skatefans-l-outgoing; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:35:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: copland.udel.edu: majordom set sender to owner-skatefans-l using -f Received: from utrecht.knoware.nl (utrecht.knoware.nl [193.78.120.3]) by copland.udel.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA17633 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from knoware.nl.knoware.nl (amsterdam-ppp5.knoware.nl [193.79.176.15]) by utrecht.knoware.nl (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA19695 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:34:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199606290934.LAA19695@utrecht.knoware.nl> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jeroen A. Prins" To: skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:33:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Judges (long!) Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Precedence: bulk *** EOOH *** Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jeroen A. Prins" To: skatefans-l@UDel.Edu Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:33:18 +0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Judges (long!) Priority: normal Sender: owner-skatefans-l@UDel.Edu On 27 Jun 96 at 21:23, Debby Fortin wrote: > The age of 45 is the upper limit for the *initial* appointment, > Dianna. And International is different than ISU. International > judges can do Skate America etc. but only ISU judges do Worlds and > Olympics (is that not correct, Jeroen?). Right Debby, and you forgot Europeans! :-) > Judges in the smaller countries get a lot of > assignments, simply because the country has few judges and thus the few > have to be sent to the many competitions. I would say that depends. I am from a small country and there is not so much money to spend on international competitions, therefore every judge will usually have one assignment per season. Last season I was lucky to have three, because besides Europeans I got two invitations to serve as a referee on international competitions abroad (Skate Israel, Nordic Championships). There are some countries who have not so many judges as yet (for instance Ukraine) but have a lot of good skaters; in that case judges who are able to go, will have many assignments. I believe Alfred Korytek had at least 10 international assignments last season (including Junior worlds, Europeans and Worlds). > Like Jeroen, I started right at 18, > but unlike him, I didn't climb the ladder quite as fast, as university, > then family obligations interfered. Nevertheless, I truly enjoy judging > at the Provincial level and perhaps, I would like to say that usually the smaller competitions are more fun than the big ones with all the pressure on. Especially the two European championships I judged, they were not funny at all! You really can feel pressure everywhere, some officials of certain countries 'test' you (I would not yet say 'try to influence' but it comes close...), during 12 days you have to control every step you take and every word you say for 24 hours. > An ISU judge here > in Calgary judged Janet Lynn and I believe Worlds before that, so that > was the at least the early 70's and she is still doing Worlds and > Olympics. Ha! That brings me to the Canadian list: (figure skating only!) Referees for ISU championships: (max. 6 allowed) John Greenwood, Jean Matthews, Dennis Mc Farlane, Audrey Williams. Judges for ISU championships: (max. 12 allowed) Margaret Berezowski, Susan Blatz, Elizabeth Clark, Frances Dafoe, Jane Garden, Susan Heffernan, Audrey Moore, Mary Pearson, Sally Rehorick, Jean Senft. Referees for international competitions: (max. 6 allowed) Margaret Berezowski, Jane Garden, Audrey Moore, Mary Pearson, Sally Rehorick. Judges for international competitions: (max. 20 allowed) Deborah Albright-Islam (she will be up the list for ISU champs next season), Pamela Chislett, Beth Crane, Mary-Claire Heintzman, Janice Hunter, Diane Jamieson, Shirra Kenworthy, Benoit Lavoie, Candace Logozzo, Sheena Meurin, Susan Morriss, Margaret Sandison, Lorna Schroder, Nancy Sorensen, William Thompson, Richard Vallee. > I don't think there are any judges in their 20's at Worlds, are > there, Jeroen? I think Jeroen is quite the exception in terms of age. Yes I am, but next season some young ones will move up the list and become ISU champ. judges: Brigitte Adam (BEL, 30), Patrick Ibens (BEL, 30), Karin Ehrhardt (AUT, 28), Alain Miquel (FRA, 28). However, I believe the ISU congress has accepted a rule change ij order to require 4 years of experience as an international judge (and not 2 as current) and more competitions in order to take the examination. >From the past I know 2 judges who judged European championships aged under 30: Annett Poetsch (GER, former champion) who judged Europeans 1988, and Gloria Morandi (ITA), who judged Europeans 1986 at the incredible age of 27. Gloria was with me in the Pairs panel of Dortmund 1995 and this year in Sofia at the Europeans she was in the Ladies' panel. > DD>Also, does anyone think that age 24 is a bit too young to be judging a > DD>senior level international competition? I think there is something to be > DD>said for the perspective and maturity that come with age. A number of > DD>senior level competitors are older than 24, and might feel awkward being > DD>judged by someone younger than they are. I have one other point to make: the educational system for judges is now better than ever, you have your national and ISU judges' schools, you have the video's which are very good, so why if young judges know their business shouldn't they get the assignments? A funny thing happened when I got my first int. assignment in Oslo, 1989, aged 25. One of the male competitors of Sweden came over to me during the draw and asked me whether I was the current Dutch champion, and if I would be skating in the Junior Men or Senior Men section :-). He was terrified and full of disbelief when I told him I would be one of the 7 judges holding up marks after his programmes. Eventually I was drawn in Senior and Junior Ladies, and we had another good laugh about it during the banquet. I assume that many of you also watch other sports, and take note of the system applied for umpires in tennis by the ITF and ATP. They have quite a number of professional umpires in charge now, who travel the whole world together with the tour. The lot of them are very young, around 25 and they do their job very well, even if they get assigned to potentially difficult matches, let's say a quarter final of a Grand slam between Agassi and Becker. One of them, Wayne McKewan of Australia, umpired the final of the Australian Open some years ago when he was only 19 years old! > Judging high levels is very hard work and requires a lot of skill > and fortitude. The pressure is incredible and I would venture to say > the judges feel as much pressure as the skaters. It takes a special > type of person to make an ISU judge and despite disagreeing with panels > on occasion, I admire each and every one. You have to have a special preparation, a special routine, before you go out to judge these sort of competitions. In fact, I developed my own routine and it is more or less the same for ALL competitions, also at the lowest level. I prepare for all competitions, I have my private checklists which I read the evening before I travel. But for Europeans of course I had more preparations and also an 'on-site plan'. Then I would make myself a private time-schedule for every day, which I will communicate to team-members, which includes: at what time I have breakfast, lunch, dinner, which trainings I want to see, which busses I am going to take, which meetings and other obligations I have to attend and fulfill etc. etc. Yes, I want to keep everything in order and I want to be in command of everything! Jeroen